GEC Prototypes. Worth Collecting?
A few weeks back there was the start of a discussion about Prototypes and were they really anything special. Since then, I realized there just isn't a lot of information available about the GEC Proto's.
Until very recently, the Prototypes were retained by GEC and you'd see them show up at Knife Show's when Ken or Ryan would be set up. As a result, unless you were lucky enough to go to a show and meet these two, you probably didn't have a clue the Prototypes were out there! So let me offer up a very brief history.
By Great Easterns own admission, when they started up in 2006 precise record keeping wasn't their primary focus. They wanted to build a high quality knife and I have a feeling they didn't have a clue what was going to happen in the collector market as far as their knives were concerned.
Now, I'm not so much implying that Great Eastern didn't know what all they were making, the shortfall came in that they weren't real good about disseminating that information to the collectors. I believe it was in early 2008 that GEC started listing the Production totals on their website.
You can check the production totals and see the serialized and unserialized totals. The breakdown in handle materials, serial number and unnumbered knives, Factory Test Production runs, etc was available in their production totals list. This was a huge tool for the collector to have access to. One problem, the Prototypes haven't been listed. *(see note at bottom)
In 2008 something else changed as well. They started running Prototype knives. From early 2008 to about June of 2009, 2 Prototypes were made of the GEC knives with some exceptions. All of these knives included a Certificate of Authenticity, with the earlier ones signed by Ken Daniels. By the way, if anyone has any knowledge or a Prototypes issued prior to 2008, I'd sure like to hear about it.

In June of 2009 they started limiting Prototype production to just 1 per knife/handle/blade configuration. The Proto's were also normally only marked if the balance of the run was serialized. By mid '09, the Certificate of Authenticity was also changed to be consistent in appearance with the COA's that they had started to include with the serialized knives.

The Prototype is the first knife produced in a run. The blade receives a special "Prototype" etch and a Certificate of Authenticity is included with the knife. If it's an earlier Proto and 2 knives were run, the COA will indicate it is 1 of 2. When they cut production to a single Prototype, they dropped the "1 of .." as it is the only one.

Worth noting, is there is typically NOT a Prototype made for every knife and handle material combo made. This will occur for a number of reasons. In the case of expensive or rare handle materials such as Genuine Stag, Mammoth Ivory, etc, it will be somewhere beyond rare to ever see a Proto. Many of the short runs will not have a Proto, but there are definitely some exceptions!!! Earlier this Fall I purchased a fairly large number of the 2008 Prototypes and my education began.
Going through the 2008's, I found there were more than a few that were very rare pieces. Here are just a couple of examples. Below is a 735108 Northfield handled with Cracked Marble. The Cracked Marble handles were only offered on the Tidioute's, and the Proto's are the only one's known to exist.

Another example is the 735108EC Northfield Water Snakes. The Water Snake handle material was offered on the Tidioute 73 Linerlock but not on any of the Northfield trademarked knives other than the Prototypes.

And more recently, GEC ran a Northfield 720110 Red Jig Bone Prototype which is the only Red Jig Bone 720110 that was made.

And a real gem as far as I"m concerned was the Northfield 362210 Black Cherry. I believe there were a total of 7 of these made plus1 Prototype. I consider this a gem as the 36's have been extremely popular and not only was it a very limited production knife, this was one of the 36's that came through with the "Ken Daniel's" label on the tube.

As you see, the rule about no short run Proto's being made has definite exceptions. In a number of these 'exceptions' a knife comes off the line and it's assumed to be the first of a 'normal' run and it's etched "Prototype". Then, for one reason or another the run doesn't occur or the run is much shorter than anticipated. It's the type of knife I love to get my hands on.
There are a lot of knives floating around in collector circles with a Prototype blade etch. In too many cases, the exact number of Prototypes isn't stated. Frequently, other than the blade etch, there's no documentation offered with the knife to establish how many knives were marked Prototype. I really have to give Great Eastern a great deal of credit for limiting the Prototypes to 2 knives early on and now just a single Proto. It has to be tempting to fatten up that bottom line by running a dozen so called Prototypes and promoting them like crazy for inflated prices.
So, are the Great Eastern Prototypes worth collecting?? In my estimation, absolutely. Are they for everyone? Nope. Let me explain why.
The Prototype represents a unique piece in any collection. It's the first off the line. It's been documented as being exactly that. At most, there may be 2 of the early one's, but later releases are one of a kind. To the collector of the 23's, 73, 56' and so on, a single Prototype of that pattern can make a fantastic center piece for the collection. If you collect Snake wood, likewise a single Snake wood Proto can add immensely to the interest of your collection. Whenever I've taken Prototypes to a show, they never fail to draw attention and generate questions. "who made it, how many, how much, etc."
All collectors typically hope to see their collection increase in value over the years. I have yet to see any collection, be it coins, guns, knives, etc, that hasn't benefited from a few "key" pieces that make up a group. They act as a central piece that can increase the overall perceived value. As a standalone piece, if you had 5 knives laying side by side, all identical except that one is marked "Prototype", do you think it might draw more interest? You'd better believe it. There are always collectors that are looking for that elusive "perfect" piece or the item no one else has.
Great Eastern charges a premium for the Prototypes and that cost is passed on to the distributor and ultimately the collector. As a result, they can be expensive relative to the 'normal' production run knives and don't fit into everyone's budget. A comment that was recently made to me was I can buy 2 regular GEC's for the cost of a Prototype, but when I look at the prices of the 2008 Prototypes, a number of them aren't that much more expensive than some of the current 'normal run' knives.
Will the value of the Prototypes outpace the normal run knives? Only time will tell. One thing you can be sure of is that having one or two Prototypes in your collection definitely won't lower it's overall value. If and when you sell your collection, I'll guarantee the high end knives will help bring you a premium. It all comes down to where your interests lie, what you value and how clear your crystal ball is.
Good luck!!
*
(I talked to Chris at Great Eastern and she said it wouldn't be a problem to include the Prototypes on the annual Production Total page. My understanding is that the 2010 Production Total page will include which knives had Prototypes made within the run. Just another great example of Chris and everyone else at Great Eastern giving the collector the tools they need to be a knowledgeable collector.)
Until very recently, the Prototypes were retained by GEC and you'd see them show up at Knife Show's when Ken or Ryan would be set up. As a result, unless you were lucky enough to go to a show and meet these two, you probably didn't have a clue the Prototypes were out there! So let me offer up a very brief history.
By Great Easterns own admission, when they started up in 2006 precise record keeping wasn't their primary focus. They wanted to build a high quality knife and I have a feeling they didn't have a clue what was going to happen in the collector market as far as their knives were concerned.
Now, I'm not so much implying that Great Eastern didn't know what all they were making, the shortfall came in that they weren't real good about disseminating that information to the collectors. I believe it was in early 2008 that GEC started listing the Production totals on their website.
You can check the production totals and see the serialized and unserialized totals. The breakdown in handle materials, serial number and unnumbered knives, Factory Test Production runs, etc was available in their production totals list. This was a huge tool for the collector to have access to. One problem, the Prototypes haven't been listed. *(see note at bottom)
In 2008 something else changed as well. They started running Prototype knives. From early 2008 to about June of 2009, 2 Prototypes were made of the GEC knives with some exceptions. All of these knives included a Certificate of Authenticity, with the earlier ones signed by Ken Daniels. By the way, if anyone has any knowledge or a Prototypes issued prior to 2008, I'd sure like to hear about it.
In June of 2009 they started limiting Prototype production to just 1 per knife/handle/blade configuration. The Proto's were also normally only marked if the balance of the run was serialized. By mid '09, the Certificate of Authenticity was also changed to be consistent in appearance with the COA's that they had started to include with the serialized knives.
The Prototype is the first knife produced in a run. The blade receives a special "Prototype" etch and a Certificate of Authenticity is included with the knife. If it's an earlier Proto and 2 knives were run, the COA will indicate it is 1 of 2. When they cut production to a single Prototype, they dropped the "1 of .." as it is the only one.
Worth noting, is there is typically NOT a Prototype made for every knife and handle material combo made. This will occur for a number of reasons. In the case of expensive or rare handle materials such as Genuine Stag, Mammoth Ivory, etc, it will be somewhere beyond rare to ever see a Proto. Many of the short runs will not have a Proto, but there are definitely some exceptions!!! Earlier this Fall I purchased a fairly large number of the 2008 Prototypes and my education began.
Going through the 2008's, I found there were more than a few that were very rare pieces. Here are just a couple of examples. Below is a 735108 Northfield handled with Cracked Marble. The Cracked Marble handles were only offered on the Tidioute's, and the Proto's are the only one's known to exist.
Another example is the 735108EC Northfield Water Snakes. The Water Snake handle material was offered on the Tidioute 73 Linerlock but not on any of the Northfield trademarked knives other than the Prototypes.
And more recently, GEC ran a Northfield 720110 Red Jig Bone Prototype which is the only Red Jig Bone 720110 that was made.
And a real gem as far as I"m concerned was the Northfield 362210 Black Cherry. I believe there were a total of 7 of these made plus1 Prototype. I consider this a gem as the 36's have been extremely popular and not only was it a very limited production knife, this was one of the 36's that came through with the "Ken Daniel's" label on the tube.
As you see, the rule about no short run Proto's being made has definite exceptions. In a number of these 'exceptions' a knife comes off the line and it's assumed to be the first of a 'normal' run and it's etched "Prototype". Then, for one reason or another the run doesn't occur or the run is much shorter than anticipated. It's the type of knife I love to get my hands on.
There are a lot of knives floating around in collector circles with a Prototype blade etch. In too many cases, the exact number of Prototypes isn't stated. Frequently, other than the blade etch, there's no documentation offered with the knife to establish how many knives were marked Prototype. I really have to give Great Eastern a great deal of credit for limiting the Prototypes to 2 knives early on and now just a single Proto. It has to be tempting to fatten up that bottom line by running a dozen so called Prototypes and promoting them like crazy for inflated prices.
So, are the Great Eastern Prototypes worth collecting?? In my estimation, absolutely. Are they for everyone? Nope. Let me explain why.
The Prototype represents a unique piece in any collection. It's the first off the line. It's been documented as being exactly that. At most, there may be 2 of the early one's, but later releases are one of a kind. To the collector of the 23's, 73, 56' and so on, a single Prototype of that pattern can make a fantastic center piece for the collection. If you collect Snake wood, likewise a single Snake wood Proto can add immensely to the interest of your collection. Whenever I've taken Prototypes to a show, they never fail to draw attention and generate questions. "who made it, how many, how much, etc."
All collectors typically hope to see their collection increase in value over the years. I have yet to see any collection, be it coins, guns, knives, etc, that hasn't benefited from a few "key" pieces that make up a group. They act as a central piece that can increase the overall perceived value. As a standalone piece, if you had 5 knives laying side by side, all identical except that one is marked "Prototype", do you think it might draw more interest? You'd better believe it. There are always collectors that are looking for that elusive "perfect" piece or the item no one else has.
Great Eastern charges a premium for the Prototypes and that cost is passed on to the distributor and ultimately the collector. As a result, they can be expensive relative to the 'normal' production run knives and don't fit into everyone's budget. A comment that was recently made to me was I can buy 2 regular GEC's for the cost of a Prototype, but when I look at the prices of the 2008 Prototypes, a number of them aren't that much more expensive than some of the current 'normal run' knives.
Will the value of the Prototypes outpace the normal run knives? Only time will tell. One thing you can be sure of is that having one or two Prototypes in your collection definitely won't lower it's overall value. If and when you sell your collection, I'll guarantee the high end knives will help bring you a premium. It all comes down to where your interests lie, what you value and how clear your crystal ball is.
Good luck!!
*
(I talked to Chris at Great Eastern and she said it wouldn't be a problem to include the Prototypes on the annual Production Total page. My understanding is that the 2010 Production Total page will include which knives had Prototypes made within the run. Just another great example of Chris and everyone else at Great Eastern giving the collector the tools they need to be a knowledgeable collector.)



We feel they are the cream of the crop for a collection. Lowest number of any run is always the proto. Then you have the ones like above where the proto was created and the decision was made not to put that particular knife into prodution st that time. Making it a one of a kind knife AND a proto. These are not users they are part of the collecting line for us.
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Hi,
Very interesting info - thanks for that. I have a question: in your experience, how (if at all) do those prototypes differ quality wise from the subsequent production knives?
Cheers,
Samid.
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There is no quality difference. It's the first knife off the line, is representative of the rest of the run, is marked and documented as such.
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Thanks!
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since i have been collecting knives..it has been a bit....anything marked proto or prototype draws more attention from the collector market.i personally think the word gets used way to much.a prototype originally meant exactly that a prototype.a one or 2 of a kind that was not gonna be sold to the general public normally at anytime.
lets say you were the organizer of a knife club.your club decided you wanted
GEC to do your knives.say you weren't sure about which etches to choose and which handle materials.once you had it narrowed down to say 2 etches and 3 handle materials these knives would be marked prototype and sent to the possible buyer.in some cases the buyer would have to pay for even these few knives. even if under contract the protos were to be returned in some cases even though paid for.every company is different.i have in my collection 2 fightn rooster knives both marked prototype.both are identical except for shield styles and handle material.but the CLUB ETCHING is the same.with the actual knife that was made for the CLUB not matching either that i have.meaning they choose yet another prototype i do not have,another knife all together or in some cases realized they couldnt afford the entire purchase at all.{case in point back2back muskrat in stag for Wheeler Basin Club,1 proto ordered,total price inend ws to much for the clubs members,so only the one knife exists,with prtotype stamped on the shield}
this,in my opinion ,was the true meaning of a prototype.prototype later began taking on a new meaning but the meaning doesn't fit.the first knife to be produced out of 200 i personally think if it is to be numbered at all a simple serial number should suffice.if it is a low run then mentioning it as a low run and keeping an accurate count and serials again are fine.the word prototype is used anymore to represent saying "the first of" or "special" when in fact a prototype is suppose to be a knife that is being looked at for possible completion of an order. that was a mouthful but i get asked alot.
about the difference.its really quite simple. hope i helped.
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since you know all about proto's,then tell me about test run knives,thank's tom.
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hey tom,great to meet ya!
first let me say that i dont know all their is about protos.wish i did.in fact their are lots of knives im still learning are even protos but are not even marked as such.all depends on the company making the original knife.
now for your question about test run knives.once again these knives serve 3 purposes.the first and this i have learned simply by calling certain companies,they are literally the first knives ran through different pieces of new machinery,new tools and dyes that were made.this is to make sure that the rest of the knives they continue to run through come out with the results wanted.second "test run" knives are marked and sold just as protos are as another way of getting the collector excited.third and the most obvious and most important just like all other knives they were made and then sold to use....lol...good to meet ya tom-pete ps-sorry its been a bit.plus if im wrong im always still learning.
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