Great Eastern Prototypes
The first part of October I started carrying the Great Eastern Cutlery Prototypes. In the past, GEC made 1 and sometimes 2 prototypes of each handle material they produced with a few exceptions. The main exception is in the case of very short runs wherein they'll opt not to necessarily run a Proto. And of course there are exceptions to the exception!! Last week I received a Proto of the #53 Muskrat Furtaker in Red Looking Glass LG. I believe the total production on that knife is around 17 pieces. BUT, for the most part, GEC is currently producing a single proto for most of the patterns and handle materials. The other exception of note is they are not producing Proto's of the Fixed Blades, only the folders.
When I started handling the GEC Prototypes I also took the opportunity to pick up around 70 Prototypes from 2008 and 2009. It's taken almost 3 weeks to finally settle down to working on getting them listed in the store. I've responded to email inquries and have sold a number of them but still have 50+ to get listed. It's going to be a while before I get through all of them.
There have been some pleasant surprises as I've gone through them finding some rather unique pieces. Several of them have been Prototypes of some very short run knives such as the River Blue Jigged bone 23EC Great Eastern that I listed yesterday. After talking to Chris, it appears there were only 5 made. It has a 2007 tang stamp with the new "Prototype" etch and the COA verifies it was produced in October of 2009.
I've also setup a separate category for the Prototypes in the store as well as adding them into the Pattern and Year of Mfg categories. Hope this helps everyone for all of the Great Easterns.
When I started handling the GEC Prototypes I also took the opportunity to pick up around 70 Prototypes from 2008 and 2009. It's taken almost 3 weeks to finally settle down to working on getting them listed in the store. I've responded to email inquries and have sold a number of them but still have 50+ to get listed. It's going to be a while before I get through all of them.
There have been some pleasant surprises as I've gone through them finding some rather unique pieces. Several of them have been Prototypes of some very short run knives such as the River Blue Jigged bone 23EC Great Eastern that I listed yesterday. After talking to Chris, it appears there were only 5 made. It has a 2007 tang stamp with the new "Prototype" etch and the COA verifies it was produced in October of 2009.
I've also setup a separate category for the Prototypes in the store as well as adding them into the Pattern and Year of Mfg categories. Hope this helps everyone for all of the Great Easterns.
Posted by Greg at 10/27/2010 11:59 AM 
Categories: Collectors Comments, New Products in the Store!, Admin Comments
Categories: Collectors Comments, New Products in the Store!, Admin Comments
I have mixed feelings about these prototypes. Maybe because they have not been too readily available in past, but now seem to plentiful.
I bought the Ivory Bone Dogleg prototype because I could reasonably argue that it is a PPP and therefore one of the first 2 made in that pattern.
Even making a knife with a completely new handle material could be said to need a prototype.
But to do one for each handle material, on patterns and handles that have been out for years? That seems strange to me.
What was the purpose of the 2009 made prototype with the 2007 blade in it? Just to find a place for an old blade? If so, it needs a different name than "prototype".
I guess an argument can be made that each knife with a new handle material needs a "prototype" to ensure that combination is appropriate. That then assumes that there are prototypes that have rejected handle materials. Now those would be interesting.
Shouldn't GEC put these prototype knives up in their collection instead of the #01 serial numbered ones? (Of course then they won't have the front blade etch).
I think the prototypes kinda cloud the collecting landscape. Prototype, low serial numbers, unserialized, store items, seconds,different handles, different years,different brands, different steels, orphan runs... They sell the first one, keep the second, sell the next 24 with numbers, sell more without numbers, put out "flawed" ones, Sell seconds to employees. Hard to say what is the "perfect" collectible one. (I know, I know, that is the point, the fun, the chase...)
That said, if there is a justification for such a thing, then I would certainly be glad to hear it. I know other companies have been prototype happy in the past and GEC is somewhat restrained.
In my head (currently) I can see a number of protoypes for new patterns or new handle materials, and then production items commence with no further need for prototypes. That would keep the prototypes "pure" for collecting purposes. (Not to go into serial numbers, that is a whole 'nother worm can.)
Anyway, I only bring this up to clarify my thoughts and get some discussion, not to be confrontational or divisive.
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You pose some excellent questions and I'd like to hear some discussion as well. Let me first throw out some information and my own opinions.
Regarding the Prototypes suddenly being plentiful: Until relatively recently, all of the Prototypes went to Ken Daniels. (Ken still gets all of the Stag Proto's) I'm going to stick my neck out an make an assumption that Ken may have sold/traded some them at knife shows, through private sales, etc so they didn't show up often in a worldwide public venue. When the opportunity arose for TSA Knives to start handling the Prototypes, rather than hold them in my private collection, I opted to put them out for sale to the general public. I also grabbed the opportunity to purchase the older Proto's and handle them in a similar manner. In the past I've had collectors ask me if I could get Proto's and this is the first opportunity I've had to offer them on a regular basis. As such, in your words, they now seem plentiful. So be it. My mission is to offer any opportunities I can to GEC collectors.
Handle materials and patterns that have been out for years, 2007 blades on a 2009 : I believe that there are times when short runs are made and a Prototype may be marked as such and a run ends up being much shorter than anticipated. A good example might be the recent 53 Red Abalone LG. In the case of the '07 on the '09, not sure what happened but personally find those kinds of knives to be interesting to say the least. Does it necesitate a Proto????
Prototypes cloud the landscape: My feeling is they don't cloud the landscape so much as offering a unique opportunity to a collector with an interest in a product with a charateristic found in/on no other product. In this case, an etch indicating it is one of the first of it's kind. Not so different from a collector of a specific serial number except there may be 25 or 50 or 150 knives with numbers on them. Only 'this one' says "Prototype".
When you enter the realm of Orphan Knives, unserialized knives, etc, as far as I'm concerned you're addressing a totally unique customer/collector. The unserialized and OK knives are typically lower in price and make it possible for someone with a limited budget to be a 'player'. In addition, some of them are very, very limited in production.
There's a definite reason why distributors will carry serialized and unserialized knives side by side in their stores. The Store/EDC Knives have wide appeal paritcularly to noncollectors looking for a high quality knife they can afford to buy and use. I think this is so important as a number of US makers are getting their butts kicked by the cheap but sometimes good quality cutlery coming in from China wearing names previously associated with "Made In America".
Restraint and Justification: The fact that GEC has limited their Proto's to 1 or 2 knives per Proto in my estimation is a demonstration of monumental restraint. I have Bark River Pre-Production models and Prototypes that I have no idea how many were made. No COA's accompanied them leaving the door wide open. I've handled xxx "Limited Editions" that totaled in the thousands. I think the key is that none of the manufacturers has to justify what they're doing. It's either accepted by the collectors as being something of interest, or not.
In an attempt to not throw any fuel on the fire you've (probably) sparked, let me wind up my remarks before I offend anymore people than I probably already have. (I'm gonna hold you responsible for this, you know)...
I won't make any attempt to discourage GEC from what they've done with some of the quirky releases we've seen, increase, decrease or eliminate their Prototypes, etc. All I can think of is how boring it would be if all we had to look forward to was the next Muskrat with red jigged bone, blue acrylic and stag handles to come through. Then wait for the next #23 with blue jigged bone, red acrylic an stag handles, etc, etc, ad nauseum. Nothing gets my heart going like talking to Chris.............................. oh yeah, I forgot... and having her start the conversation with..."I don't know if you'd be interested in this, but we only ran 4......" For me, that's what keeps me coming back for more.
This is the stuff that collecting is made of. There are folks that only collect Genuine Stag, so why fool around making Burnt Stag. If we already have smooth bone, why jigged bone? Do we really need a series without serial numbers??? Can anyone justify it? Should they justify? It's all about chasing what interests you most and ignoring the rest of it. If anyone truly enjoys collecting knives, I challenge anyone out there to offer the name of a single company out there that offers more opportunities to a wider range of collectors with a more diverse choice of products than GEC.
Eric, I don't think you and I are the only two with opinions on this and I hope a few more of you are willing to chime in. Eric and I don't have to accept your opinions, but we're always willing to read them and if we've offended anyone, well, just put your hat back on and 'cowboy' up!!!!
greg
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Well, I'll have to throw out Case as a diverse choice company (unless I misunderstood your challenge
Hey, I'm open-minded. I buy plenty of different GEC short runs, store, numbered, un-numbered and now prototypes and memorabilia.
I guess my collecting mindset was upset by the availability of these prototypes. I had a loosely defined collecting plan going and these these prototypes have me re-evaluating the possibilities. I'm just glad the stag protos aren't available. My mind might explode.
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Nahh.... I just called out xxx and Bark River as two examples among dozens of possible examples of how meaningless some of the collectible terms can become. Limited Run, Prototype, PreProduction Prototype, etc.
I want you to contemplate this. When I first started as a GEC distributor waaaay back in '07, I envisioned putting one of each release in the safe. Which quickly was about to turn into safe(s). Fortunately, my wife came to my rescue and told me 'this ^%@#gi* is gonna stop right now!!!" Guess we all need those shots of reality once in a while!
NOW... I check out the Proto's thinking, well, this isn't quite as bad. Just have to clear it with my wife first.....
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Hi,
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones!!
I can not afford Protos, so they are
of NO interest to me.
Poor Morrie
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